Francis Drake, Privateer

A privateer was a private warship authorized by his country to attack foreign shipping

Heaven when you’re dead, or kingdom now 21 feb 09

This posting is based on a previous comment I put on-

http://chrismccarley.wordpress.com/2008/12/17/true-religion/#comment-19 

How did people get saved before Jesus?

What does “salvation” mean?

If you look at the Old Testament you will see virtually no reference to where we go after we die!

To them salvation

WAS NOT- HEAVEN WHEN YOU’RE DEAD.

To them salvation

WAS- DELIVERENCE FROM PHILISTINE FAMINE AND PLAGUE.

Jesus started his ministry in the synagogue in Nazareth, with this reading.-

 Luk 4:17 And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And unrolling the book, He found the place where it was written,

Luk 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me; because of this He has anointed Me to proclaim the Good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim deliverance to the captives, and new sight to the blind, to set at liberty those having been crushed,

Luk 4:19 to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

NO REFERENCE TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU’RE DEAD!!!!!

His anointing was not to preach heaven when you’re dead!!!!!!!! Read it again to verify this!!!!

His anointing was not to preach heaven when you’re dead!!!!!!!! Read it again to verify this!!!!

His anointing was not to preach heaven when you’re dead!!!!!!!! Read it again to verify this!!!!

Imagine Jesus meeting a blind man or a cripple.  “Don’t fear my son,  just believe in me and it’ll be great when you’re dead. ”

When John the Baptist, and Jesus, and the disciples, went forth preaching the gospel, what was it they said?

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, Repent! For the kingdom of Heaven is AT HAND.

“At hand”, meant that it was right where they were, available but hidden from view. Jesus then proceeded to show exactly how close “at hand” it was by doing all sorts of  “kingdom”  things.

What does the church say? “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is WHEN YOU’RE DEAD”. It is “dead” easy to promise the uncheckable and unprovable.

Why do they change the meaning of the message? Simply because the church no longer has the faith to demonstrate the truth of the invisible Kingdom of God like Jesus and the early christians did.

FOR THOSE WHO ARE ALREADY SONS OF GOD IN THIS EARTHLY LIFE, HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE IS, HOWEVER, SIMPLY A TRANSITION. –TIME TO GO HOME TO FATHER!

 And please note that eternal life starts when you are reborn, and it cannot be lost through sin or rebellion etc. otherwise it could never be ETERNAL!!!

Notice, when Jesus rebuked Nicodemus,-

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 3:4 Jesus answered, truly truly, I say to you, unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It was about seeing and entering the hidden kingdom. It requires new birth, from above. This was not about having to believe in what Jesus was going to do on a cross three and half years later!

All the Old Testament saints were “Born from above” , and this was obviously well before the cross.

IT IS A FACT THAT JESUS PAID THE PRICE FOR ALL SALVATION WITH HIS BLOOD! 

It was not and is not a fact that we need to comprehend about this to get to heaven when we die. Otherwise no one from before the time of Jesus would be there with us at the last day.

It is about time we took the mythology out of Christianity. It would help us to understand what the actual purpose of the Gospel is.

ie. What the bible says it is

Understanding about the cross, is about walking as a believer in the power that the cross gives.

The purpose of the Gospel is about the REIGN OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN THIS LIFE!

IT IS ABOUT LIVING FROM OUR DWELLING PLACE IN THE HEAVENLIES.

If you have just read this posting, and pass on from it without comment, doesn’t that make you indifferent to challenge? Or maybe you totally agree with me.

I welcome your thoughts on this post.

Advertisements

February 21, 2009 - Posted by | Bible, CHURCH, Eternity, Gospel, Kingdom life, Knowing God

12 Comments »

  1. so. i of course agree with what you are saying. but you are so passionate about there not being a heaven when you are dead. How does that fit in with what you are saying aobut our “transitioning” or “going home to be with our father?”

    Comment by chrismccarley | February 22, 2009

  2. Hi Chris.
    This is why it is so important to have dialogue rather than just one sided preaching at an audience. If I am not clear then I need to address it. So you are right to challenge anything which is not crystal clear.

    So to be absolutely clear. There is heaven when you are dead, (for those, of course, who are the children of the God of Heaven.)

    My passion is about the PURPOSE of the Gospel message NOT being about what happens after death. ie. Life after death starts LONG BEFORE YOU DIE! (unless you are the thief on the cross)

    ——“And please note that eternal life starts when you are reborn, and it cannot be lost through sin or rebellion etc. otherwise it could never be ETERNAL!!!”—–

    Mat 12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

    This example shows how the kingdom rule may be manifest on earth, simply casting out demons.

    However anytime you hear the “RHEMA” word of God whispered in your spirit and do it, then the Kingdom of God has been manifested.

    Jesus kept saying that he only did what he saw His Father doing. So should we.

    I absolutely believe that I will go to my Heavenly Father when I die. However I refuse to just play church whilst in this life. I am on a journey of the spirit which is a joy to live by.

    Comment by francisdrakeprivateer | February 22, 2009

  3. Very few Christians understand that they are a citizen of the Kingdom of God – NOW. Not when they die, but now. And with their citizenship, they have all of the rights of the King’s son which includes eternal salvation, healing, deliverance and whatever else is needed. These are our heritages. They are ours now.

    As one man said, “The church is like a baking club that doesn’t bake anything. They just sit around a table and look at cookbooks. When they see a luscious picture of a cake or pie, their mouths water, but nothing more happens. They never follow the instructions and actually bake or taste the cake. And … God forbid…if someone walks into the club with frosting all over his mouth and face, the person is rejected as a radical. How dare that person actually follow the instructions in the cookbook and ruin the unity of the baking club!”

    Comment by Larry Who | February 22, 2009

  4. Interesting thoughts here. There is definitely a misconception that entering the Kingdom happens at physical death, rather then when we begin a new life in Christ, here on Earth….

    One thing you said I was unsure of however, about the saints who were saved before Christ were saved without the cross. I don’t know if that’s accurate. Sure, they were before the cross, but in Hebrews it tells us that those who lived before Christ were saved through their faith, while looking ahead to the cross, while we are saved through faith, looking back on it… In the end, it’s the same faith, and the same sacrefice atoning for us all. Maybe that’s just a semantic point, I don’t know…

    I do know that Paul simply preached Christ, and Him crucified…. There is no real understanding of the kingdom without it.

    Comment by Daniel | February 25, 2009

  5. Hi Daniel.
    Thanks for calling by. All comments are welcome. Really liked your blog, its on my blogroll now.

    I didn’t say the Old Testament saints were saved without the cross. Please read it again.
    ************************************************************
    “All the Old Testament saints were “Born from above” , and this was obviously well before the cross.

    IT IS A FACT THAT JESUS PAID THE PRICE FOR ALL SALVATION WITH HIS BLOOD!

    It was not and is not a fact that we need to comprehend about this to get to heaven when we die. Otherwise no one from before the time of Jesus would be there with us at the last day.”
    ************************************************************
    Please do not think I am opposing Christ crucified. I am saying that they did not know how God did it. They trusted God, but God is a God of Justice and there was a price to pay. However they knew nothing of Jesus.

    Everyone expected a messiah, but never that he would die and rise again. Such knowledge was not needed to get anyone to heaven after they die.

    The purpose of the Gospel is primarily for this life, to turn born again Saints into Victors! Salvation is the outworking of the Gospel in this life. Most christians never get that far, their lives being little different to a none believer’s

    If this is still not clear please come back on me.
    Francis

    Comment by francisdrakeprivateer | February 25, 2009

  6. Great post. “Christianity” has portrayed the gospel as exclusively a vehicle to get us to heaven, and save us from hell. You are so right; the kingdom of God is AT HAND, and lives in those who are born from above.

    As a brand new Christian, I instantly became close to this God, this Jesus, that I could not see. I heard His voice. I knew He was constantly with me. I trusted that He was leading me. I believed He could do all that He said He could do in and through my life. Soon after that, I became enrolled in the Church System of Christianity, and was taught that this new life was much more complicated than I had orignally thought. Over the years, I became confused with the so many voices out there, so that eventually I could no longer discern the voice of my Savior amongst them. Now, having stepped out of the “religion” that currently is portrayed as the be all and end all of Christian experience, I am learning to shut out all voices save His. Praise Him forever.

    Love the “cake baking” illustration.

    Comment by Maureen | February 26, 2009

  7. May I first say that I love what’s been spoken here. It’s truth is indisputable, and seems to confirm what’s been inside of my spirit.

    On the other hand, it has really re-opened a can of worms for me. That being the whole issue of healing, as I am one in need of healing from disease (MS). Perhaps it came up thru the comments here. I once would’ve said that I wholeheartedly believed that healing, while on this earth, was part of my inheritance. I now find myself re-thinking, even questioning, EVERYTHING that I was taught thru religion.

    What I can not seem to reconcile is why I see and hear of so many on this earth who apparently are believing Father for healing, yet never see it, in this lifetime. My previous teaching would have said that those are simply the ones who don’t have faith to receive their healing. I’m interested to hear what you have to say on the subject, because I DO believe what’s been spoken here… and in scripture, that the kingdom is AT HAND, and that Jesus, Himself proclaimed that.

    “The purpose of the Gospel is about the REIGN OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD IN THIS LIFE!”

    Comment by Free Spirit | February 26, 2009

  8. Sorry, I meant to hit the “notify me of comments” button – so I will now.

    Comment by Free Spirit | February 26, 2009

  9. Free Spirit, I understand your anguish.

    I have the same concerns, and am determined to get to the root of this, which is why I had to leave the system.

    There is much more to it than plain personal unbelief. I hope to be able to post about it fully some day. However I would like to air some stuff that the Lord gave me.

    I was praying with my wife last year. I began to sense something in my spirit, and unloaded it to her. I felt that the Lord was showing that the “Formal” church in this land (UK) had control, nationally, over what was recognised as revealed spiritual wisdom and thus the overall level of unbelief in the land. I am talking about spiritual revelation over the land itself, not individual churches.

    By Formal church (institutional) I refer to the Anglican Church principly but also the Methodists, Baptists etc. Their historic and collective unbelief had opened the door for major demons to erect strongholds over the land and block much of the possible blessings and healings flowing over the whole land. (The incidence of random acts of answered prayer doesn’t affect this, we are at war in the heavenlies.)

    These churches are on record as saying (some for centuries) that the miracles ceased with the death of the apostles.

    They also fought vigorously, the early manifestations of spirit led revival.
    When prayers for healings fail, they also regularly declare that it was therefore NOT the will of God to heal. Even more outrageously that God puts sickness on his children for their benefit.

    There was a lot more that He showed which gives power to the demonic.

    That week I went to our small home gathering, at some point I spoke about it. The response was a little muted, We don’t believe any of these falsehoods about healing, so why should it affect us.

    It affects us the same way that the angel of the Lord was blocked by the demonic ruler over Babylon.

    Dan 10:12 Then he said to me, Do not fear, Daniel; for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and to chasten yourself before your God, your words were heard. And I have come for your words.
    Dan 10:13 But the ruler of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days. But lo, Michael, one of the chief rulers, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

    The Ruling Strongman over healing etc. in the UK and elsewhere gains his status and power from those who, nationally, are supposed to represent the people towards God, and God towards the people, ie. the Formal Institutional Historic Church. They hold sway far beyond the disorganised church.

    I didn’t make much headway in the home group that evening, the idea was a bit too far away from reality for the members.

    The next morning whilst shaving, I had some words run so suddenly through my mind that it made me jump.

    ” Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you shut up heaven”.

    I knew it was from the Lord,- that’s a scripture, that’s a scripture, I kept saying as I rushed out to find a bible.

    This is the full verse.-
    Mat 23:13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of Heaven against men. For you neither go in, nor do you allow those entering to go in.

    I was excited. Often over the years, I have found that the Lord gives me a principle to see if I will own it, and speak it out by revelation. Only afterwards does he give me the proof.

    This scripture shows several important things.
    1) The kingdom of heaven is definitely a NOW thing, not some future time.

    2) That someone can actually prevent others from getting access to the fruit (ie. healings) of the kingdom, or even entering the Kingdom of Heaven.

    3) This last bit will undoubtedly raise hackles.- Who was it that blocked access, and how?

    The answer to that can only be the Scribes and Pharisees the equivalent of the Formal Institutional Church leadership of the day.

    How?- By their doctrines which made the word of God to no effect.

    THEY ACTUALLY SHUT THE DOOR TO HEAVEN.

    This says to me that it is more than just our lack of faith which blocks answers to prayer. There is also a massive stronghold of the demonic to deal with, which gains strength from the institutions of religion in the land.

    We need to ask what WE should do, however I feel sure that we need to beware that we aren’t compromised by supporting institutions that also in some ways deny the truth we are seeking.

    Comment by Francis | March 2, 2009

  10. Although I don’t currently have the time to read this in its entirety, I like what I have seen by reading here and there.

    I too have spent much time looking into this matter and found much biblical information regarding the simple fact that we were made for earth, not for heaven. Adam was created from the earth in order to rule and reign over it. I was not created for heaven. I am here to execute the Kingdom of God and have dominion over the earth upon which I stand.

    Glad to have “met” you. I plan on returning… soon.

    Comment by Joel Spencer | March 5, 2009

  11. Hi Joel.
    Amen
    Amen
    Amen
    Amen
    ad infinitum.
    There is much more to be said on this subject on both our blogs! I look forward to dialogue, Diablogue?
    Frank

    Comment by francisdrakeprivateer | March 5, 2009

  12. Thanks, Francis, for your response. I was hoping to have more time to respond to you, but it’s just not happening. Life is too busy right now. I really appreciated what you had to say, and think there’s probably much more to add to it. Thanks for your insight… it has been a long while since I’ve focused on those stories that you mention, but perhaps there’s something important in them to be considered. Wish I had more time to comment, but wanted to say Thank You!!

    Comment by Free Spirit | March 7, 2009


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: